Ep. 3: Cameron Siasi, VP of Operations at the Label That Signed James Blake

[00:00:00] Cameron Siasi: On Good Boy Records, James Blake is there. We, we signed him almost two years [00:00:05] ago now. Even his, like, debut project that came out in, like, 2010 or 2011, I was [00:00:10] listening to that playing World of Warcraft when I was in, like, eighth grade or ninth grade. Like, I loved it. [00:00:15] You know, there's songs that have been signed for, like, $2,500 that end up generating, like, a million dollars.

[00:00:19] Cameron Siasi: [00:00:20] I told my now wife when we were 16 [00:00:25] that I was gonna marry her the first night I really met her.[00:00:30] [00:00:35]

[00:00:37] Sajag: Hello, hello. Welcome to Coolest Person I Know, [00:00:40] uh, episode three. Uh, we got Jake here. So our next guest [00:00:45] is, uh, Cameron Siasi. Um, so today's guest [00:00:50] I actually got in- connected to, uh, from a close friend of mine, and, uh, the second I [00:00:55] heard about him, I wanted him on. He's had a genuinely crazy path to get here, the kind most people [00:01:00] don't even know is possible.

[00:01:01] Sajag: So we're gonna get into all of it, how you even end up doing this, who he's betting on [00:01:05] right now, and what's next for him. Cameron, get in here [00:01:10] Hello. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:12] Jake: What's up? Siasi's a sexy last name.

[00:01:14] Cameron Siasi: Oh, [00:01:15] thank you. I actually, the second time I've heard that this week.

[00:01:19] Jake: Really?

[00:01:19] Cameron Siasi: Weirdly [00:01:20] enough, yeah.

[00:01:20] Jake: What was the first time you heard it?

[00:01:21] Cameron Siasi: Somebody was saying to my wife that she sounds like a [00:01:25] Italian supermodel with the, with the new last name, and I'm like, "It's not even- Yes ... not even Italian or anything like that, [00:01:30] so.

[00:01:30] Jake: Give us the origin of your name. How did, how did that come about?

[00:01:32] Cameron Siasi: It means politics in, in Farsi.[00:01:35]

[00:01:35] Cameron Siasi: It directly translates to politics. Oh, really? Yeah. Very cool. Wow. I think somewhere along the

[00:01:39] Cameron Siasi: lines, [00:01:40] my dad's great-grandpa or something changed our last name- [00:01:45] Okay ... like a while, while ago, and we're one of the only families with that last name in the world to [00:01:50] my knowledge.

[00:01:52] Sajag: So Cameron, I teased that most people don't even know your [00:01:55] job, like could be a real job, right? Uh, so how do you even explain what you do to like your family?[00:02:00]

[00:02:00] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, I mean, it, it took a while to even get to that point. Like, uh, working in music [00:02:05] for so long, I was managing for a long time, and, um [00:02:10] I, I started off, uh, managing artists that I grew up with, and I [00:02:15] think that was my kind of like break into music. The nice thing about [00:02:20] the music business in general is there is not [00:02:25] really one way to get into it.

[00:02:27] Cameron Siasi: Like, honestly, like going through the corporate path is probably the hardest way [00:02:30] to get into it, whereas like in other trades, other businesses, like there's typically one ladder [00:02:35] and everything else is an outlier. You go and ask anybody who works in music, their path is [00:02:40] probably pretty different across the board.

[00:02:42] Cameron Siasi: Uh, there's so many small businesses, so many different [00:02:45] types of companies, so many different types of teams. Um, and my path started in management, [00:02:50] uh, and what I did differently with everyone that I was managing is we started a whole group together. [00:02:55] Um, so it was a few artists, a few producers, a few writers, and then we created a [00:03:00] collective around that.

[00:03:00] Cameron Siasi: So we kind of eliminated every single factor, [00:03:05] uh, and didn't need a system to jump into. I think that's what [00:03:10] made it different for us.

[00:03:11] Jake: How, how and when did you cultivate those clients?

[00:03:14] Cameron Siasi: Uh- [00:03:15] So it's like- I was maybe

[00:03:17] Jake: 17. Nice.

[00:03:17] Cameron Siasi: One of them is-

[00:03:18] Jake: You're in high school or

[00:03:19] Cameron Siasi: something? Yeah. Just [00:03:20] like high school friends?

[00:03:20] Cameron Siasi: Uh, end of high school. Um, they were a year or two younger than [00:03:25] me, and they were still in school at the time. Um, [00:03:30] but yeah, it was all from the same hometown, uh, the first few people I worked with [00:03:35] all around Maryland.

[00:03:36] Jake: Can you mention who those folks were?

[00:03:37] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. Uh, the guy I started everything with, his [00:03:40] name is, uh, Ray Man, still an incredible producer.

[00:03:43] Cameron Siasi: Um, has probably one of the [00:03:45] biggest hits of the year coming out pretty soon, I think by the end of this summer, I'm not sure. [00:03:50] Um, and yeah, we started-- Most of what I do [00:03:55] in music, we started all that together, and still one of my best friends, was one of the groomsmen at my wedding, [00:04:00] uh, incredible guy, incredible producer.

[00:04:02] Cameron Siasi: Um, but yeah, e- everything started within [00:04:05] my hometown, and I honestly was able to build up with all of them, uh, a [00:04:10] pretty great self-sustaining business, uh, while we're all still pretty young, trying to [00:04:15] figure it out. I mean, at first it was just fun. We didn't realize what it could be. But looking back [00:04:20] at it now and knowing how unstructured and Wild West the music industry is, like we, we pretty [00:04:25] much captured everything without realizing it.

[00:04:27] Cameron Siasi: What was the pitch? Uh, as far [00:04:30] as, like- To the clients, like what was the business you were offering? Ah, you guys handle the music, [00:04:35] I will handle everything else. And I figured that out as it went by. Like some days that was [00:04:40] being the therapist, some days that was replying to emails and Google searching [00:04:45] terms that they were sending back.

[00:04:46] Cameron Siasi: Um, there's a series of books called, uh, Donald Passman's [00:04:50] All You Need to Know About the Music Industry, and I've read at least three editions front to back. [00:04:55] Um, so as many resources, and you could ask people at music, that's like the Bible. Um, as [00:05:00] many resources as possible to kind of teach myself, so most of it was self-taught.

[00:05:04] Cameron Siasi: [00:05:05] Um, and yeah, that was like really the origin of how I got into music. It was purely passion. [00:05:10] I realized because of these guys, I probably shouldn't be making music. Like they [00:05:15] were so like leaps and bounds ahead of me.

[00:05:17] Sajag: Yeah.

[00:05:17] Cameron Siasi: And I could do everything [00:05:20] else around it, but yeah.

[00:05:22] Sajag: If you see a musician and you listen to their [00:05:25] music-

[00:05:25] Cameron Siasi: Mm-hmm

[00:05:25] Sajag: are you able to say, "Okay, hey, this guy, like he knows his shit"? Like, are you able to recognize [00:05:30] good music, uh, versus, um, maybe not being a musician yourself?

[00:05:34] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, I, I [00:05:35] think it's all relative. I think that's what's so special about it, right? Like, uh, this is [00:05:40] something I've always said, but I don't know where it comes from or if it's a quote or something, but music is kind of like the [00:05:45] expression of emotion, words are the expression of thought.

[00:05:48] Cameron Siasi: So whether that sticks [00:05:50] with somebody, like somebody could love like- Insane Clown Posse, but I'm not gonna [00:05:55] really like that, you know? Like, versus somebody loves country music, it's not my favorite. The taste [00:06:00] is, it's very relative- Yeah ... very personal. I'd say I could see who really [00:06:05] has it out there. I'd say, like, true artistry cuts through.

[00:06:08] Cameron Siasi: Um, as long as you're giving a piece of [00:06:10] yourself, uh, that's what really sticks with somebody. That's the emotional performance. That [00:06:15] cuts through the voice. Music is, like, the most human thing on earth, right? So you can't [00:06:20] really fake it. Uh, and I think that's what we all connect with at the end of the day.

[00:06:23] Cameron Siasi: It could be something super [00:06:25] corny, but we still all love it.

[00:06:27] Sajag: So maybe you could explain [00:06:30] to-

[00:06:30] Cameron Siasi: Yeah ...

[00:06:30] Sajag: the listeners, like, what does a label do? Uh, because I think a lot, for a lot of people, the [00:06:35] music industry is kind of a little bit of a black box.

[00:06:36] Cameron Siasi: Yeah.

[00:06:37] Sajag: And, uh, it's really interesting. Like, I just learned [00:06:40] earlier, uh, I have a friend of mine who just got signed, and she just went on tour.

[00:06:44] Sajag: Mm-hmm. And I found out [00:06:45] the artist actually has to pay for their tour expenses.

[00:06:47] Cameron Siasi: Yes.

[00:06:48] Sajag: Uh, which is not something that I ever [00:06:50] expected. Everybody i- in, that I knew, you know, was like, "Oh, I thought the record label pays for the tour," [00:06:55] right? Mm-hmm. But apparently not. Um, so I'm curious, like, you know, for the black box the music industry [00:07:00] is, um, how do you actually explain what, uh, a record label is?

[00:07:03] Sajag: Like, what does it do? I

[00:07:04] Cameron Siasi: mean, [00:07:05] plain and simply, their, their job is to release and promote music, right? I, I think [00:07:10] whatever is going through that pipeline is their job to [00:07:15] release and promote. I mean, that's as simple as it is. Back in the day, there used to be 360 [00:07:20] deals, so that would include merchandise, um, touring, anything that would be [00:07:25] related, like brand deals.

[00:07:26] Jake: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:26] Cameron Siasi: And we're starting to see that come to come back together, but [00:07:30] I'd say a lot of the business has turned more into licensing deals, more into shorter term [00:07:35] deals, and a lot of times they're not including, like, tour or anything else on that. So that's where you're [00:07:40] seeing, like, them having to do their own expenses.

[00:07:42] Cameron Siasi: But at the same time, they're putting [00:07:45] up their money for a tour, they probably will earn the most money from a tour anyways, and that's probably the [00:07:50] highest revenue generating factor an artist can do right now is- Mm-hmm ... can you sell tickets? [00:07:55] Uh, and that's pretty under spoken. Like, people don't really talk about, [00:08:00] uh, ticket sales as much as they talk about streams, and streams are great.

[00:08:03] Cameron Siasi: It's a very consistent way of [00:08:05] tracking, like, revenue growth. But ticket sales are really, like, like, the, [00:08:10] for lack of saying it better, high ticket item that people should be tracking. I think that's pretty [00:08:15] impressive. Plain and simply, yeah, a record label distributing music. I think that- [00:08:20] question, and the answer is changing every month at this point.

[00:08:24] Cameron Siasi: We're seeing a [00:08:25] huge consolidation of music, but, uh, I don't need to nerd out too much about- No, d- ... the [00:08:30] business right now.

[00:08:30] Jake: We wanna know what that consolidation looks like.

[00:08:32] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, I mean, if you look at, like, Q1 of this year, we've [00:08:35] seen, like, probably the most transactions by value and by [00:08:40] quantity ever in music, potentially.

[00:08:42] Cameron Siasi: You saw, like, multi-billion dollar companies buying other [00:08:45] multi-billion dollar companies. A company like Primary Wave buying Kobalt, that's a [00:08:50] industry shaking deal. Uh, Virgin Music buying Downtown. [00:08:55] Um, companies that were somewhat competitors across the board now [00:09:00] coming together, and it's less of a merger at the same time.

[00:09:03] Cameron Siasi: Like, they're, they're really, like, combining, like, [00:09:05] so many different streams of what the businesses are growing. And labels [00:09:10] buying distributors creates, like, a crazy pipeline up where they could upstream younger talent [00:09:15] and develop them without really investing as much time and capital. [00:09:20] Um, so it's changing the whole business and how that really looks.

[00:09:22] Jake: How do you infiltrate that?

[00:09:24] Cameron Siasi: [00:09:25] Um, I guess y- you kinda have to see where the layer above it all stands. Like, how are the [00:09:30] people viewing the industry? And I'd say, like, that's institutional money, right? Like, the people that are [00:09:35] investing into music outside of music, how do they view it? And I think they [00:09:40] see how consistent streaming is How consistent that [00:09:45] money is, and it's become more predictable.

[00:09:47] Cameron Siasi: So it bakes in a downside- Like licensing rights ... yeah, it bakes in a [00:09:50] downside for our business, whereas before, like, go-forwards, like, uh, all new music, like let's [00:09:55] say I signed you to a deal that was for 10 songs and you haven't put it out, don't really have a track [00:10:00] record, and I don't own any of your past songs to kind of bake in the floor, I'm [00:10:05] pretty much gambling, right?

[00:10:06] Cameron Siasi: Like, that's, that's not a great business. And there was a great clip Mark Cuban did [00:10:10] recently. He was talking about the music business. He said, "It's probably one of the worst investments you could [00:10:15] make." I don't wanna quote him, but he was like, "Futures in music is literally like penny stocks or gambling," [00:10:20] right?

[00:10:20] Cameron Siasi: Buying back catalog is probably one of the most boring businesses you could see right now, and you see, like, the [00:10:25] big headline catches where, like, Britney Spears' catalog is sold, or, um, Justin [00:10:30] Timberlake's, or name the other amazing legacy catalogs that are being sold for hundreds of millions of [00:10:35] dollars.

[00:10:35] Cameron Siasi: You'll see that pretty safe, pretty safe bets.

[00:10:39] Sajag: It's a [00:10:40] strong investment.

[00:10:40] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. I would say, like, digital assets at this point, and music [00:10:45] included, it's like buying real estate, right? Like, if somebody's shouting out a liquor brand in a song and that's being played [00:10:50] for 20 years, you're gonna know about it for 20 years.

[00:10:53] Cameron Siasi: Because of all the catalog [00:10:55] sales and everything that's happened, uh, transactions this year, I'd say [00:11:00] just across the board, 'cause some acquisitions, some mergers, catalog sales, whatever it might be, [00:11:05] even raises for different funds, I'd say what's really been the [00:11:10] most interesting part of it is seeing, like, hey, the middle class of music has so much value that nobody's [00:11:15] touching.

[00:11:15] Cameron Siasi: We're consolidating at the top, but they're also setting up to kind of, like, [00:11:20] cast a huge net and catch the middle class. Like I said earlier, like, [00:11:25] let's say there's 100,000 songs being released a week. Who's really collecting revenues and maximizing the [00:11:30] output of that song... uh, uh, output of that music? Um, and that's just one example.

[00:11:34] Cameron Siasi: Like, there's better [00:11:35] systems for that, but I'd say, like, the catalogs of, like, producers and writers who [00:11:40] we probably, even myself, haven't even heard of, are worth in the seven and eight figure spots, [00:11:45] uh, because they've had an impact on other massive songs and other massive catalogs. Um, I [00:11:50] think that's where it gets really interesting, right?

[00:11:51] Cameron Siasi: And there's so many different vehicles. Like, a lot of the underwriting for [00:11:55] deals now comes from back catalog but has become more backed by traditional, [00:12:00] like, institutional money, and that makes it for [00:12:05] a lot more bets can happen, right? Like, you have, like, a middle [00:12:10] class of music emerging, whereas, like, a $15,000 deal or even, like, $1,500 deal [00:12:15] didn't exist a while ago.

[00:12:16] Cameron Siasi: You're just signing somebody for a song or two, the upside is massive. [00:12:20] You know, there's songs that have been signed for, like, $2,500 that end up generating, like, a million dollars. [00:12:25]

[00:12:25] Jake: Right.

[00:12:25] Cameron Siasi: Um, and people didn't used to have that access. [00:12:30] So I think it's democratized a lot of the access in music, which is great, and there's companies [00:12:35] like, uh, Virgin who are, you know, giving deals out to

[00:12:39] Jake: record labels.

[00:12:39] Jake: [00:12:40] It's democratized a- Yeah ... access, but the business practice hasn't caught up, right? Like, the economics haven't caught up to the [00:12:45] democratization of it.

[00:12:46] Cameron Siasi: Uh, yes and no. I [00:12:50] think there are a lot of players in, like, music tech, for example, that are helping with that process. I [00:12:55] think apps like Untitled, they rolled out something where, like, people could go straight to physical and, like, print their own [00:13:00] vinyls, do limited runs of that.

[00:13:01] Cameron Siasi: And if you could sell 100 vinyls at 50 bucks a pop or 30 bucks a [00:13:05] pop, like, decent revenue for a song that might never make $3,000 streaming, but you [00:13:10] could sell 100 vinyls to your core fans. Um, and I think there's, [00:13:15] there's open channels of differentiation and different revenue streams that you could grow from that.[00:13:20]

[00:13:20] Cameron Siasi: When I zoom up a little bit more, it's like, okay, you get, like, a tranche of, [00:13:25] like, these artists who aren't, like, the names that you and I might know, but they're [00:13:30] still streaming at, like, let's say one to five million monthly, uh, listeners a day. You get 100 [00:13:35] of them and you securitize against that, you have a completely different asset, as [00:13:40] opposed to selling, like, Justin Timberlake's catalog.

[00:13:42] Cameron Siasi: And I think that's more possible [00:13:45] now because they're actually being valued and they have more consistent earnings from streams.

[00:13:49] Jake: Yeah.

[00:13:49] Cameron Siasi: [00:13:50] Nope. Versus before, like, selling 2,000 records in a week was kind of like a, a death sentence. I want- You get, like, 10 [00:13:55] projects like that, completely different. I

[00:13:57] Jake: really wanna see it h- happen in the artist world, 'cause I think it's [00:14:00] necessary for those people.

[00:14:01] Jake: Like, my dad's a chef and he's an artist, not a business guy. Yeah. It's two different types of brains.

[00:14:04] Cameron Siasi: [00:14:05] Yeah.

[00:14:05] Jake: Uh, but securitizing their earnings, I, I think actually helps. Have you ever heard of a company called [00:14:10] Hipgnosis?

[00:14:10] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, of course. I

[00:14:11] Jake: think that's, like, the graveyard, though, that's limiting. [00:14:15]

[00:14:15] Cameron Siasi: Um, I don't know much about what happened.

[00:14:18] Cameron Siasi: I know they've shifted. [00:14:20] I think they might have even fully rebranded.

[00:14:21] Jake: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:22] Cameron Siasi: But that definitely created [00:14:25] this huge pop to the point where you're not even in music, um, you have [00:14:30] some exposure, but you know the name Hipgnosis. Right. They did some massive deals in 2021, [00:14:35] and then, I don't know, like, much about it, but seemingly imploded after the fact, [00:14:40] and I think they were just a little bit early.

[00:14:41] Cameron Siasi: Maybe they just went a little bit too high and created, like, a, [00:14:45] kind of a bubble that never really popped, but definitely slowly deflated, and it took a [00:14:50] couple years for it to rebound. But like I said earlier, 2026, you know, [00:14:55] first half of the year has been the craziest, and I think- In hindsight, like [00:15:00] Hypnosis, the multiples and the valuations might have been a little bit high, but their thesis wasn't wrong at all.[00:15:05]

[00:15:05] Cameron Siasi: They're actually correct. Um, and even The Weeknd is doing like his own version of Bowie Bonds now. Like, [00:15:10] you're, you're gonna start to see a lot of different offerings onto the market, and I think people are more [00:15:15] interested in that. I don't know who will end up doing it and whether it'll end up happening this way, but I [00:15:20] think if you're a fan of somebody, wouldn't you wanna invest in a stock of them the same way you're buying their [00:15:25] vinyl or something like that?

[00:15:27] Sajag: So Cameron, I feel like in business, right, [00:15:30] like the parallel here is, like, I feel like you have to be pretty delusional in business to make it.

[00:15:33] Cameron Siasi: Definitely.

[00:15:34] Sajag: You have to be [00:15:35] like, "All right," like, "I am the guy that is gonna do it." But also at the same point, [00:15:40] like, I feel for, for music it's probably pretty similar.

[00:15:43] Sajag: Like, and I see it as, like, kind [00:15:45] of very different, right? Because, like, in business you see a lot of people working at [00:15:50] it, and you see them keep working at it. The probability of you actually succeeding in business, as long as you [00:15:55] stay in the game, is actually pretty high, uh, in some capacity. Yeah. Like, maybe you don't make a billion [00:16:00] dollars, but you make...

[00:16:00] Sajag: You know, you'll get a business that's, like, generating a few hundred thousand dollars a year or whatever, right? [00:16:05] But I think that, you know, y- in music I feel like, for me at least, right, if I'm like, "I [00:16:10] wanna become a musician," I see so many people doing music, and very, very few of [00:16:15] them making it.

[00:16:15] Cameron Siasi: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:15] Sajag: Um, so I feel like the delusion you have to have in the music industry as a [00:16:20] musician is, like, 100 times more than a, uh, than a businessperson.

[00:16:24] Sajag: And I could be wrong, [00:16:25] but I'm curious. Like, what do you see in, like, the artists that you work with? Do you... Like, you saw a lot of your artists, [00:16:30] like, from the beginning, right, when they had nothing, and how y- they blew up. Like, what was the level [00:16:35] of delusion? Were they delusional? Were they just working at it?

[00:16:37] Sajag: Was it just passion? Like, how... What was the [00:16:40] driving factors that took somebody from, you know, A to Z?

[00:16:43] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. I'd say across the [00:16:45] board, like, ignorance when you're young is probably

[00:16:48] Sajag: the- Ignorance

[00:16:48] Cameron Siasi: is

[00:16:48] Sajag: bliss ...

[00:16:49] Cameron Siasi: Well, not even [00:16:50] just bliss. I think it's, like, the biggest superpower you could have as a young person. Um, [00:16:55] I was listening to something the other day, and it, it just sparked the, the thought in my head, and it's like [00:17:00] crystallized intelligence as we get older is incredible, 'cause, like, we have the wisdom of doing...

[00:17:04] Cameron Siasi: [00:17:05] You know, having done something 100 times. But it also slows you down, 'cause it'll make you [00:17:10] second-guess all the crazy decisions that actually might work out, and I think that's what's really [00:17:15] important for an artist. It's like, "Hey, I'm gonna try things, 'cause if I go... If I'm [00:17:20] doing the same thing as everybody else, I'm not gonna break through."

[00:17:22] Cameron Siasi: You have to constantly be the outlier. You have [00:17:25] to constantly be more special in whatever way that might be. And I think what, [00:17:30] what really sticks out to me is, like, hey, is this guy pulling out a piece of themself, [00:17:35] being vulnerable and showing it to the world? For lack of a better way of saying it. Um, you have to be [00:17:40] extremely delusional.

[00:17:40] Cameron Siasi: I think you have to be delusional in all sense of business. If you're out there doing something for [00:17:45] yourself, you have to be delusional. If you're trying something new, if you're reinventing yourself. So I'd [00:17:50] say, like, yeah, absolutely in music. I mean, the, the stage is smaller. The industry's smaller. [00:17:55] Um, but we've all seen, like, you can have an incredible life, an incredible career [00:18:00] Um, there's just very limited spots.

[00:18:03] Cameron Siasi: I think that's changing though. I think [00:18:05] back in the day, like, there was definitely, like, a, a gatekeeper, and I don't think there is anymore. Yeah. I think we're all [00:18:10] just kind of competing for attention across the board.

[00:18:12] Sajag: Yeah. There is. Now you can be a, a small artist on, on [00:18:15] Spotify- Yeah ... and still have, like, some blowup songs.

[00:18:17] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. There's, there's, there's multiple [00:18:20] different ways of doing it now. You could be the biggest artist in your town and sell out shows once a month, and that's a [00:18:25] decent life. Um, you could... There, there's, uh, [00:18:30] Connor Price on YouTube who's, who's incredible. Uh, he's built a whole business, and he probably makes more [00:18:35] money outside of actual streams and music than he does, uh, [00:18:40] across the board, you know?

[00:18:41] Cameron Siasi: So I think there's 1,000,001 ways to do it, luckily. [00:18:45] Uh, once you have the attention, you have the distribution, and I think that's what's really important, right? Like, at the end of [00:18:50] the day, like, it's gonna sound weird for me to say this, but an artist can be like a billboard now, [00:18:55] where you are just a distribution channel.

[00:18:58] Cameron Siasi: You have the, the customer and [00:19:00] audience trust. You're able to sell them other things. Uh, yeah, [00:19:05] I, I wouldn't wanna businessify it too much, but like- Yeah ... to be a pure musician, yeah, [00:19:10] you have to be 100% deluded, and I think you can definitely become a human [00:19:15] again, but you have to go on a run of being a, a nut job, and it pans out for some people.

[00:19:19] Jake: You [00:19:20] said something earlier that got me so excited, because I feel like sports guys, music or whatever, [00:19:25] sports people, music, entertainment people do not pay attention to the markets-

[00:19:29] Cameron Siasi: [00:19:30] Mm-hmm ...

[00:19:30] Jake: or institutional capital flow.

[00:19:32] Cameron Siasi: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:33] Jake: Does living here in New York [00:19:35] shape your business outlook and give you an edge in your industry?

[00:19:39] Cameron Siasi: I wouldn't say an [00:19:40] edge. I would say a very different perspective, though. Um, I think it's all [00:19:45] different. Like, I, I definitely don't have an edge when it comes to, like, what's going on today or [00:19:50] tomorrow. I'm definitely, like, a, a step behind, and I have to find out from other people. Um, [00:19:55] because people in Los Angeles, like, you're getting a prompt for, like, what band is [00:20:00] creating their album, who's coming back together, like, weeks before it happens, because they need the music to do it, [00:20:05] and that word travels pretty quickly, um, versus, like, me, where I'm...[00:20:10]

[00:20:10] Cameron Siasi: You know, I'll, I'll hear about some of the financial news, but less so about, like, the, the ins [00:20:15] and outs of the daily. And I think it's definitely different, right? Like, I can [00:20:20] dissect it in a different way than somebody else would, and that's just, yeah, probably for environmental [00:20:25] reasons, but also because I think the people that are in New York a- in the music [00:20:30] business are definitely more on the business side versus on the creative side, um, which those [00:20:35] lines blur pretty often in music.

[00:20:37] Cameron Siasi: But yeah, definitely more on the business and [00:20:40] strategy side.

[00:20:41] Jake: Do you like being in New York?

[00:20:43] Cameron Siasi: I love New York.

[00:20:44] Jake: Why do you love New York? [00:20:45]

[00:20:45] Cameron Siasi: I don't know. I, you kinda just get addicted once you're here.

[00:20:49] Sajag: There's [00:20:50] no place like it.

[00:20:50] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. Well, you try to leave, or you don't even try to leave. You go on vacation, it feels [00:20:55] great, but you come back here, and it's, like, even better.

[00:20:58] Cameron Siasi: Then you hate it again, and [00:21:00] then you- Then you love it ... fall in love with it again. Yeah, I, it's, it's hard for me to say. Like, [00:21:05] I'm at that point where we're thinking about, like, buying a house and having kids and everything, and I'm like, "I really just [00:21:10] still don't wanna leave." And it's like, what do I have left to accomplish or do here, whatever.

[00:21:14] Cameron Siasi: It's not even [00:21:15] that. It's like the living in New York has such an incredible [00:21:20] energy to it, and you feel like you're in the thick of it. It's like the heart of the world almost, like the center stage. [00:21:25]

[00:21:25] Sajag: Yeah. I mean, you leave New York, it feels like it's empty, because- Yeah ... all the opportunity is [00:21:30] here. All the people that are doing the coolest shit is here.

[00:21:33] Sajag: It's, like, very hard to leave, because then [00:21:35] you just... It feels like you're just walking into a cornfield.

[00:21:37] Cameron Siasi: Yeah.

[00:21:38] Jake: You get FOMO.

[00:21:39] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. Well, [00:21:40] I feel like people that- Don't have the same sentiment, don't make the most of it. [00:21:45] Yeah. Like, sometimes you just gotta walk outside and, and spin up, like, an NPC [00:21:50] conversation and see where life takes you, and I think that's a practice that people should be doing more [00:21:55] often.

[00:21:55] Sajag: I agree. People should be talking more to, to strangers.

[00:21:58] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. Like, I'll just have [00:22:00] a random chat with the barista, and I'll think of, like, my dad doing the same thing, and I'm like, "This feels weird," but [00:22:05] then you get past it and you're like, "That was, that was a nice way to start my day," you know? So- Yeah ... New York's [00:22:10] awesome.

[00:22:10] Cameron Siasi: Used

[00:22:10] Sajag: to happen all the time.

[00:22:11] Jake: Do people give you energy?

[00:22:12] Cameron Siasi: Definitely.

[00:22:13] Jake: I think that's the, the New Yorker [00:22:15] trait- Yeah ... that differs people.

[00:22:16] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. I, I love it, man. And you, you, like, see something [00:22:20] crazy happening on the streets and four people start chatting about how crazy it was together. Yeah. And you just kinda look at [00:22:25] in huts.

[00:22:25] Cameron Siasi: Like, I don't know. We, we all probably have a, a crazy story of, like, a street [00:22:30] walker or whatever the fuck's going on outside. Um, but yeah, there, there's definitely, like, a collective [00:22:35] vibe in New York that it's unmatched.

[00:22:37] Jake: So where do you... Where is your favorite place to socialize in New York? [00:22:40] 'Cause I think it's still hard to find a venue [00:22:45] where it's easy to talk to people.

[00:22:46] Jake: We have our favorites. I wanna hear yours.

[00:22:49] Cameron Siasi: I [00:22:50] like- I think people are always gonna say, like, the, the private [00:22:55] clubs or social clubs, but I feel like that's not really... kind of just still talking to the same people every time [00:23:00] if you are going there. And then- It's, it's the same, it's the same crowd ... still that's also gonna be wrong.

[00:23:02] Cameron Siasi: To your point, like, yeah, I, I think [00:23:05] Equinox and, like, the third spaces that aren't for socializing necessarily are better, 'cause [00:23:10] what are we gonna do? Walk into a coffee shop and everyone has their AirPods in and, like, working? [00:23:15] Doesn't really work that well.

[00:23:16] Jake: You do a good job of that.

[00:23:18] Sajag: Occasionally.

[00:23:19] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, I mean, most- I met [00:23:20] some really interesting- It's mostly

[00:23:20] Jake: women, though

[00:23:21] Jake: I

[00:23:21] Cameron Siasi: met some

[00:23:21] Sajag: interesting people

[00:23:22] Cameron Siasi: I think, I think anywhere that has, like, a built-in [00:23:25] level of curation, like, you're already filtering it out and it's not to, like... I think [00:23:30] you should be exposing yourself to all different walks of life. Yeah. I think that's great. [00:23:35] But I think, like, the gym kinda gets people together, but at the same time, like, [00:23:40] any third space that, like, gets you around people that are, are interesting.[00:23:45]

[00:23:45] Jake: I think the sauna does it for me.

[00:23:46] Cameron Siasi: Even events, like random events. Yeah,

[00:23:48] Jake: random events is also great. [00:23:50]

[00:23:50] Cameron Siasi: Like, even going on Luma or Partiful and, like, just, like, jumping into something.

[00:23:54] Jake: Really? I don't do [00:23:55] that. That's smart. You would- I have,

[00:23:56] Cameron Siasi: I don't- Partiful, Partiful

[00:23:57] Sajag: I do that.

[00:23:57] Cameron Siasi: It's very common ... I don't, I don't do it all the time, but if there's, like, [00:24:00] a...

[00:24:00] Cameron Siasi: The other day there was, like, a random event for, like, a PinkPantheress listening party. [00:24:05] Uh- ... wasn't even, like, I just saw it and I'm like, "This is so interesting." I

[00:24:09] Jake: think [00:24:10] 100- A

[00:24:10] Cameron Siasi: Pink Panther? P- Pantheress. PinkPantheress is a- Oh ... a artist.

[00:24:12] Jake: Okay.

[00:24:12] Cameron Siasi: You've probably heard some of the music. Uh, had a [00:24:15] bunch of huge viral songs.

[00:24:16] Cameron Siasi: I'll play it for you later. But, um, it was, like, 150 [00:24:20] people and I was like... I didn't go. I didn't RSVP or anything, but I was just going through the guest list and I'm [00:24:25] like, "This is..." I was like, "Do these people know each other?" It was a public event, and they just [00:24:30] kind of all went and listened to the music together.

[00:24:32] Jake: That's cool. I feel like we're so in the thick of it, the three of us, that, [00:24:35] like, you, you just check your phone. Yeah. Or I don't even, I check my calendar now and I don't have shit to do. Yeah, Partiful

[00:24:39] Sajag: [00:24:40] just auto-adds to your calendar.

[00:24:41] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. You just get invited. And I'm lucky enough, like, I have amazing- And share your wife

[00:24:44] Cameron Siasi: amazing [00:24:45] friends who are, who are always inviting me to great things. Uh, and I try to make it to everything that I [00:24:50] can, um, while also maintaining my own fucking mental health and- Yeah ... and trying to [00:24:55] sleep enough and work out and the whole nine yards there. Um- It's good ... but yeah, [00:25:00] it's, it's, it's all about building, uh, people that, [00:25:05] as you get older, put in as much effort as you and you just get to do stuff.

[00:25:08] Cameron Siasi: I feel like you, you have to have that [00:25:10] lust for life.

[00:25:11] Jake: Walk us through your ideal weekend in New York City.

[00:25:14] Cameron Siasi: Ideal [00:25:15] weekend in New York City. Um, I'd love to [00:25:20] do a comedy show or a concert for sure. Bake that into one of the nights.

[00:25:23] Jake: Give us spots. Give us specific spots. [00:25:25] Tell the people.

[00:25:25] Cameron Siasi: I love the Brooklyn Paramount.

[00:25:26] Cameron Siasi: Okay. I think that's a, a very special venue. I've [00:25:30] been loving every show there. Baby's All Right I think is awesome. [00:25:35] Uh- Where is that? It's in Brooklyn.

[00:25:36] Jake: Okay.

[00:25:37] Cameron Siasi: Um, where else? It's a smaller [00:25:40] venue for sure. A lot of, like, earlier up-and-coming artists. Um- [00:25:45] Any sort of comedy show. I think Comedy UO does an incredible [00:25:50] job doing different venues.

[00:25:50] Cameron Siasi: I just did the one at the De Niro Theatre. That was very fun. Like, [00:25:55] watching comedy in a movie theater is a little different. I think they have- I did

[00:25:57] Jake: that at Wilson Sporting Goods with them. So fun.

[00:25:59] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, [00:26:00] that's, like, that's crazy. Yeah. I think they have one coming up at, like, a scuba tank place, which, like, I'm curious to see how that goes.

[00:26:04] Cameron Siasi: [00:26:05] I think it's next week. Um, but that's incredible vibe. Like, stuff like that, another [00:26:10] reason why New York especially. You just have, uh, a young group of guys just putting that together, or [00:26:15] guys and girls. I'm, I'm not sure what the team consists of. But, um, putting together something really [00:26:20] unique. Um, yeah, a dinner date with my wife, walking around the [00:26:25] park.

[00:26:25] Jake: Where are you guys going?

[00:26:26] Cameron Siasi: Uh, let's see. [00:26:30] Nearby where we live, I'd say there's a lot of really great spots. Thai spot like, uh, Chalong on 9th Avenue, [00:26:35] incredible. One of the underrated gems. I'd say probably top three Thai in New York [00:26:40] City. Maybe across the world it's a top

[00:26:42] Jake: 10 spot. I don't think people realize how great the Thai food is here.

[00:26:44] Cameron Siasi: [00:26:45] Yeah, they don't. Yeah. I was just in Thailand for two weeks, and I, I couldn't top the food- In [00:26:50] New York? ... uh, in, on 9th Avenue specifically.

[00:26:52] Sajag: Wow.

[00:26:52] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. Uh, I wouldn't even go as [00:26:55] far as, like, saying, like, all of New York. And it's not a demerit to, to Thailand. It was [00:27:00] incredible there, but, like, more of just, like, a plus-up for New York.

[00:27:03] Cameron Siasi: It's, it's tough to beat. [00:27:05]

[00:27:05] Sajag: What's the best meal under $30 in New York for you? [00:27:10]

[00:27:10] Cameron Siasi: I think Sai Get has an incredible banh mi, and that's like 13 [00:27:15] bucks. Yeah. And I don't think you could beat that for, like, how much taste is packed into there. [00:27:20] Um, best meal under 30 bucks.

[00:27:24] Sajag: What, [00:27:25] what would you do

[00:27:25] Cameron Siasi: on your- How much is coca duck?

[00:27:27] Sajag: Not

[00:27:28] Cameron Siasi: sure. 40? I think that's the best [00:27:30] value you could get.

[00:27:30] Sajag: Like, I've

[00:27:30] Cameron Siasi: never been there. Qumi Ori

[00:27:31] Sajag: you can get pretty close to.

[00:27:32] Cameron Siasi: Qumi Ori's great- Yeah ... but, like, coca duck is [00:27:35] probably the best fried chicken you'll ever have.

[00:27:37] Sajag: Really?

[00:27:37] Cameron Siasi: And it's like 40 bucks, and it's a whole... You go [00:27:40] there and you feel like a king.

[00:27:41] Cameron Siasi: They're, they're giving you a tasting menu for, like, 30, 40 bucks a person.

[00:27:44] Sajag: Oh, wow. [00:27:45]

[00:27:45] Cameron Siasi: Uh, yeah. It's great.

[00:27:47] Sajag: Where, where do you, like, scout for, for talent?

[00:27:49] Cameron Siasi: [00:27:50] Dude, it's... Everything is online, 100% online.

[00:27:53] Sajag: Really? Just Spotify [00:27:55] streams?

[00:27:55] Cameron Siasi: I think Spotify's algorithm is better than TikTok by far. [00:28:00] Um- For music, yeah ... TikTok's been, like...

[00:28:02] Cameron Siasi: It's been really rough for discovery for these [00:28:05] artists, and they're busting their ass doing it. I, I would never say it's, like, a waste, 'cause, like, when something does break through it's [00:28:10] incredible for them. But Instagram is definitely a little bit better. I feel like [00:28:15] the music industry kind of all gravitates towards something.

[00:28:18] Cameron Siasi: I'll find something and see, like, the same [00:28:20] five or six people also following it, so that'll tell me I'm a little too late- [00:28:25] In the right place ... or, like, it's, it's about to pop off. There's one artist who went on [00:28:30] pretty, a pretty crazy run this year, and I found her at, like, probably, like, 1,500 followers, right?[00:28:35]

[00:28:35] Cameron Siasi: And I think now she's sitting at well over a couple hundred thousand.

[00:28:39] Sajag: [00:28:40] Wow. And- And

[00:28:40] Cameron Siasi: at what, what

[00:28:40] Sajag: time period was that?

[00:28:42] Cameron Siasi: A few months.

[00:28:42] Sajag: Two months

[00:28:43] Cameron Siasi: from- A few. I, I'd say- A few months, wow ... like, [00:28:45] three to four months. Four to- It might have, like, really kicked off November of last year, [00:28:50] and at this point she's just kind of a, a name, at least amongst the industry.

[00:28:54] Cameron Siasi: I don't know [00:28:55] how far she's broken out. I haven't kept up with it as much.

[00:28:57] Sajag: That's crazy. So in three to four months she went from, like, [00:29:00] 1,500 to hundreds of thousands-

[00:29:02] Cameron Siasi: Yes ...

[00:29:02] Sajag: of followers.

[00:29:03] Cameron Siasi: Yeah.

[00:29:03] Sajag: And is that, like, a normal... Is that a typical [00:29:05] story? Yeah.

[00:29:05] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, I, I think it is, uh... I think it is very possible. I, I [00:29:10] think it's exaggerated in music, but in life in general, I think in business, you only really [00:29:15] need a good year or two.

[00:29:16] Cameron Siasi: You can compound success for, like, a year or two. Like, you're golden. [00:29:20] You're set up for- True ... at least a few years in life, and I think that means, like, making a great business. But [00:29:25] yeah, in, in music specifically, like, dude, one video could change your life. [00:29:30] One soundbite could change your life. I mean, there's, there's artists who are, like, living [00:29:35] off of, like, completely faceless projects.

[00:29:37] Cameron Siasi: Let's say a producer, they probably have one of the most [00:29:40] viral sounds that you guys have heard 100,000 times but never put together. Like, oh, this is [00:29:45] somebody. They might not be able to sell tickets, but, like, they're streaming at, like, 100,000 streams a month and [00:29:50] making a good life out of it.

[00:29:52] Sajag: What's the earning rate on, like, some of these streams?

[00:29:54] Cameron Siasi: It's [00:29:55] all, it's all different. I mean, you'll see, like, the- stream [00:30:00] count of like a million streams is $7,000, but it depends on tiers of streams, which [00:30:05] distributors, which DSPs. Like Spotify pays specific amounts- But like a- ... and then they tier it out by [00:30:10] market, so

[00:30:11] Sajag: But like a Spotify, that like, you know, you go pull up a Spotify [00:30:15] artist profile- Yeah

[00:30:15] Sajag: it says like, you know, a million a year, like a million monthly active listeners. Like, what do you think they're getting [00:30:20] paid?

[00:30:22] Cameron Siasi: It, it really varies, right? Like, their, their fans could [00:30:25] all be in Brazil, for example, and Brazil pays out, I think it's a tier two or tier three market [00:30:30] by Spotify, and that's significantly less than like the US.

[00:30:32] Cameron Siasi: Um, so it's hard for me to say, [00:30:35] you know?

[00:30:35] Sajag: Sure.

[00:30:35] Cameron Siasi: And then there's like a breakdown of like, are those paid [00:30:40] streams, free streams, um, which plan are they on? Like [00:30:45] Spotify and all these other platforms have completely different payouts. I don't know if Apple Music does it if you're on like a [00:30:50] family plan versus like a solo plan, but Spotify does.

[00:30:53] Sajag: That's crazy. So they [00:30:55] factor in all of that?

[00:30:56] Cameron Siasi: Yes.

[00:30:56] Sajag: So that's, that's kind of crazy.

[00:30:58] Cameron Siasi: I'm surprised. It passes through [00:31:00] multiple hands before it gets to an artist as well, but the flow of money in [00:31:05] music starts at the artist level. It'll go like Spotify, then to a [00:31:10] label, couple intermediaries between that, then they have to [00:31:15] do all the math on their end.

[00:31:16] Cameron Siasi: They pay out either quarterly or biannually. It'll go to [00:31:20] whatever label, let's say it's just the end state label, sometimes there's stuff in between that, [00:31:25] and then it'll go to the artist at that point. But typically they won't get a crazy breakdown [00:31:30] of where everything's coming from unless they request like an audit or accounting or stuff like that.

[00:31:34] Sajag: Wow. [00:31:35] Do you feel like, uh, a lot of labels are bad actors in this sense?

[00:31:39] Cameron Siasi: I [00:31:40] think people get a bad rap. I think for the most part, maybe I haven't been around long [00:31:45] enough to, to really meet bad actors. I've only met great people. Um- I feel like

[00:31:48] Sajag: if you're a bad actor, you [00:31:50] get, you

[00:31:50] Cameron Siasi: know- It's a very small industry.

[00:31:51] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. There's people that it definitely will sway in the [00:31:55] gray area, but no, I, I wouldn't see... Nobody wants somebody to do poorly or like purely to take [00:32:00] advantage of them. When we're talking about like the really bad problems, and it's not to soften the terrible shit [00:32:05] that's happened to people, but like these are great problems.

[00:32:07] Cameron Siasi: The difference between 1 million [00:32:10] and 1.5 million is significant, but it's not gonna be like-

[00:32:13] Sajag: Make or break ...

[00:32:14] Cameron Siasi: ruining [00:32:15] somebody's life forever. I mean, it definitely could.

[00:32:17] Sajag: Makes sense. What i- what's the most delusional thing [00:32:20] that you've done in business that worked out?

[00:32:24] Cameron Siasi: Delusional [00:32:25] thing I've done in business and it's worked out.

[00:32:26] Sajag: Or in life[00:32:30]

[00:32:30] Cameron Siasi: delusional thing I've done in life, I have an answer for that. But I'll, I'll try to answer the first part first. [00:32:35] Um

[00:32:39] Cameron Siasi: I think [00:32:40] just thinking that, and I still have this belief, I think everyone stops believing in [00:32:45] themselves at a certain point that they can, it's not even just become a billionaire, but just have a [00:32:50] massive impact on the world, uh, or do something insanely [00:32:55] big or important or whatever. Uh, I don't even know how to quantify it anymore at [00:33:00] the, the age that I'm at.

[00:33:00] Cameron Siasi: But yeah, I've, I've never stopped thinking that, and I don't think I ever will. I [00:33:05] think I'll... Even if it doesn't happen till I'm 85, where you go do, like, the Colonel Sanders thing, like he [00:33:10] started KFC when he was 65, whatever age it was. Um, I think [00:33:15] that's probably the most delusional part of me. I, I know that from, from seeing it in [00:33:20] others, from my own experience, you need one good idea, one good day, and to [00:33:25] my point earlier, one or two good years-

[00:33:27] Sajag: And you're good

[00:33:28] Cameron Siasi: and you're good. You do that a couple [00:33:30] times, you're fucking golden. It's like the, you know, the Steve Jobs thing where it's like you [00:33:35] master two things, you're, you're already differentiated against everybody else.

[00:33:39] Sajag: True. Do [00:33:40] you, um- And, and what about for life? What's the most [00:33:45] delusional thing you've done in life?

[00:33:46] Cameron Siasi: I told [00:33:50] my now wife when we were 16 that I was gonna marry her the, [00:33:55] the first night I really met her.

[00:33:57] Sajag: Wow. Let's, let's dive into that.

[00:33:59] Cameron Siasi: Yeah.

[00:33:59] Sajag: Let, let's dive into [00:34:00] the story. Yeah,

[00:34:00] Cameron Siasi: it's, it's-

[00:34:01] Sajag: So I heard it, it's a-

[00:34:02] Cameron Siasi: You've heard bits and pieces of it I think, right? I heard the

[00:34:03] Sajag: bits and pieces, yeah. Let's, let's hear.

[00:34:04] Sajag: So [00:34:05] how did you meet your wife, and, uh- Yeah ... how, how did, how did this happen?

[00:34:08] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, I mean, we were like babies in, [00:34:10] in hindsight. Uh, she had a friend who I [00:34:15] grew up with, was one of my friends, and they visited, and we met at a [00:34:20] party. I mean, that itself isn't that crazy, like it happens. What was crazy is that she lived in [00:34:25] New York, I lived in Maryland, and yeah, we, we met that night and we were long [00:34:30] distance for a few years, but I pretty much called my shot then, and I have maintained that position [00:34:35] for the past almost 11 years at this point.

[00:34:37] Cameron Siasi: Wow. I'm 27. We've been together since I was [00:34:40] 16. Uh, yeah, around 16. [00:34:45] And yeah, it's been going amazing so far.

[00:34:47] Sajag: Did you move to New York for her? [00:34:50]

[00:34:50] Cameron Siasi: Yes and no. I think I, I always wanted to live in New York anyways. [00:34:55] Um, but she wasn't here when I got here. She was at Syracuse. She went to school up there. I went to Pace.[00:35:00]

[00:35:00] Cameron Siasi: But yeah, she was in Syracuse. I was here. We'd try to see each other like once a [00:35:05] month. The flights were really cheap back in the day when I was in college even. It was like 40, 50 bucks to get up [00:35:10] there. Uh, and we made it work. I think from like day one- It's a quick flight ... like we, we both [00:35:15] like knew like, "Hey, we're gonna start a family together."

[00:35:16] Cameron Siasi: We've been building our life together since we were babies, [00:35:20] and I feel like I've already lived a lifetime with her, which is incredible. I'm very lucky in [00:35:25] that. Probably the best and will probably continue to be the best decision I've ever made. [00:35:30] Um, yeah.

[00:35:32] Sajag: That's incredible.

[00:35:33] Jake: What were you focused on in [00:35:35] college?

[00:35:37] Cameron Siasi: I was working. I was managing while I was in college, so it was [00:35:40] like-

[00:35:40] Jake: Who were you managing?

[00:35:41] Cameron Siasi: I wa- uh, the producers and artists I was talking about earlier. So it was still [00:35:45] that same collective, and that was before I even jumped into any, like, formal music industry [00:35:50] stuff. Um, so we were... They were a rap group at that point, and we got [00:35:55] very close to, like, blowing up.

[00:35:57] Cameron Siasi: It was right before, like, Brockhampton blew up or any [00:36:00] of, like, the newer groups like Whatmore. Um, that was a very special time in my life. [00:36:05] Like, we started getting reached out to by every label, and this is when I was still, like, one foot in, [00:36:10] one foot out. I kind of knew what was going on, but not as much.

[00:36:13] Cameron Siasi: And, uh, [00:36:15] yeah, it definitely split my focus at a bad time at school. I definitely didn't do as well as I should [00:36:20] have in undergrad, but I also got, like, a very interesting breadth of experience, [00:36:25] um, in between doing, like, internships and working for other people, [00:36:30] um, jumping into random projects. Managing was really fun, 'cause you got exposure to [00:36:35] everything.

[00:36:35] Cameron Siasi: I definitely was more in New York than I was in school, if that [00:36:40] makes sense.

[00:36:41] Jake: Have you had a good year yet? [00:36:45]

[00:36:45] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. Yeah

[00:36:47] Jake: What, what made it a good year?

[00:36:48] Cameron Siasi: Um, [00:36:50] what made it a good year? Everything's made it a good year, man. And I [00:36:55] think just waking up positive and having the opportunity to do something new every day is, is [00:37:00] more than enough for me right now.

[00:37:01] Jake: I was talking about in business, you said you like, you only need one good year. Have you [00:37:05] had that yet?

[00:37:06] Cameron Siasi: I've, I've had a few.

[00:37:08] Jake: Okay.

[00:37:08] Cameron Siasi: I've had a few. I think when [00:37:10] you take a risk and it pans out, that's, that's a great, that's a great year. [00:37:15] If you could really mark down like, "Hey, this is what I did this year," you could go back and look at like the past [00:37:20] X amount of years of your life.

[00:37:21] Cameron Siasi: Let's, let's jump forward 30 years right now, right? [00:37:25] If you could mark down one thing you did for the past 30 years and have 30 items to [00:37:30] look back on, I think that's pretty amazing. Most people just kind of float through life, [00:37:35] and that doesn't need to be only in business. That could be like, I don't [00:37:40] know, uh, learning how to surf.

[00:37:42] Cameron Siasi: Uh, it could be learning something or doing something [00:37:45] impactful in your life. Uh, I think that's really important. I think it [00:37:50] gets skipped over now 'cause everyone gets stuck in some corporate rat race or trying to like get [00:37:55] some superficial goal or items, whatever it might be. I think [00:38:00] I had a, I had an incredible trip to Thailand this year.

[00:38:04] Cameron Siasi: [00:38:05] Um, very impactful for my life. Celebrated the 10th year I was with my wife. [00:38:10] Um, I've done a lot of great stuff this year. Uh, as far as work, we launched, [00:38:15] uh, a new company this year. Um, I've seen like [00:38:20] some of the people that I started this with when we were still like trying to make the [00:38:25] difference between it being like a, a weird hobby that a kid was doing at the time that was not [00:38:30] popular.

[00:38:30] Cameron Siasi: Like, it, it wasn't the cool thing to make music when we were growing up. It was just like a random [00:38:35] SoundCloud thing to now being like... You know, one of the kids I, uh, one of the guys I [00:38:40] managed had a, a platinum record last year.

[00:38:43] Jake: Who's that?

[00:38:44] Cameron Siasi: Uh, it was, uh, [00:38:45] for the Benson Boone album, and-

[00:38:47] Jake: Who's the artist?

[00:38:48] Cameron Siasi: Uh, Benson Boone is the, the artist.

[00:38:49] Cameron Siasi: Benson Boone's [00:38:50] the artist? But the producer's name is Rayman. Gotcha. He's just incredible. Um, [00:38:55] but yeah, like seeing moments like that, like it, it completely changes your perspective on what's [00:39:00] possible, what's really like your bar of success. It's like just willing things into [00:39:05] existence.

[00:39:06] Sajag: So Cameron, you've gotten access through what you do to like some crazy [00:39:10] rooms These crazy rooms you've been in, like what are, what are some of the memories and you're like, [00:39:15] wow, like, you know, maybe, maybe for you, like it kind of flashed before you because like I, I f- [00:39:20] imagine like a lot of things are not real until they're real.

[00:39:22] Cameron Siasi: Like I'm a, an I'm here moment. [00:39:25] Ah, it's hard for me. I, I, I- I'm [00:39:30] here is still like I don't feel like I'm here, so it's hard for me to say that. I'd say like [00:39:35] we have, uh, on, on Good Boy Records, James Blake is, uh, there. We, [00:39:40] we signed him s- two years ago now, but he just put out his project in March. And I think [00:39:45] the first time meeting him, but also the first time being on a call with him is super surreal, 'cause I'm [00:39:50] a massive, like huge, huge fan of his and have been for years.

[00:39:54] Cameron Siasi: [00:39:55] Like even his like debut project that came out in like 2010 or [00:40:00] 2011, like I was listening to that playing World of Warcraft when I was in like eighth grade or [00:40:05] ninth grade. Like I loved it. It was incredible. Uh, always been a massive fan of him. So [00:40:10] that was probably the coolest moment I've had [00:40:15] business-wise.

[00:40:16] Cameron Siasi: Um, and while I've been less involved in like the marketing and the rollout of the project, our [00:40:20] team's done an incredible job with it. Uh, but just being around an artist that you actually [00:40:25] are a massive fan of, and then them also being like an incredible person too. [00:40:30] Yeah, that's That, that was probably the coolest thing

[00:40:33] Sajag: How, how did that [00:40:35] happen?

[00:40:35] Sajag: How, how did you guys meet him? Yeah. Uh, what, what was, uh, you know, what, what made him wanna sign? [00:40:40] Like, how, how did that c- put together?

[00:40:42] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. I, I'd say honestly what Good [00:40:45] Boy was so different with is, like, the ethos of the whole company. I couldn't tell you [00:40:50] what made him sign. That's, that's his story to tell.

[00:40:52] Cameron Siasi: Uh, and he's kind of s- told it in bits and pieces in his [00:40:55] own way. Um, we got introduced to him through a company called INDEFY, uh, [00:41:00] another New York-based company in music, incredible people. Um, and they [00:41:05] set up the connection and, uh, yeah, I, I think what [00:41:10] differentiated Good Boy from other people is the, like I said, the ethos of the company.

[00:41:13] Cameron Siasi: Like, we've only ever [00:41:15] done artist deals that are on a licensing basis, never more than [00:41:20] 50%. Um, always very favorable terms. [00:41:25] Uh, try to put the artist forward. Always made sure everyone was taken care of and paid, [00:41:30] um, which sounds normal but isn't- It's not ... really always the case. Um, [00:41:35] like the, the founders of the label even were paying out health insurance stipends during COVID and, and [00:41:40] some of the following months after.

[00:41:41] Cameron Siasi: They've literally always taken care of everybody in their community. [00:41:45] Um, and so yeah, I, I think actually [00:41:50] caring about the work you do, um, always trying to be a partner on the music. I feel like a [00:41:55] lot of people just in general in life and in business will jump into something but not put their [00:42:00] best foot forward, uh, and I think that's what differentiates it.

[00:42:03] Cameron Siasi: I, I wish I could draw to, like, [00:42:05] one thing or the other, but...

[00:42:07] Sajag: What is, uh... what's your role at Good Boy? Uh- What do [00:42:10] you do day to day?

[00:42:10] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, uh, mostly business operations. [00:42:15] Yeah, more so, like, the past few months and honestly year has been, [00:42:20] uh, more on, like, the legal and business side of it and then we have Good [00:42:25] Boy Projects where we were signing stuff initially and then turned into, like, us, [00:42:30] uh...

[00:42:30] Cameron Siasi: we did some partnerships and investments into other companies, and then that turned into me incubating, [00:42:35] uh, what I do pretty much full time now, uh, a company called Clear Note, which was- Let's talk about that. [00:42:40] Yeah.

[00:42:40] Sajag: What, what is Clear Note?

[00:42:41] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, yeah. I- it started out as, like, the- [00:42:45] legal platform for music and music contracts.

[00:42:49] Cameron Siasi: There [00:42:50] wasn't really many tools in music in general, and- I think

[00:42:53] Sajag: music, uh, and tech haven't [00:42:55] really interacted very much. Like,

[00:42:56] Cameron Siasi: there's not been a- There's been some, but it honestly is, like, the, [00:43:00] the most unattractive thing in the venture world because there hasn't been one [00:43:05] massive, like, music tech company outside of Spotify.

[00:43:09] Cameron Siasi: That's, that's one. Everybody [00:43:10] else has been... Yeah, that's... There hasn't been, like, one massive one that hasn't been [00:43:15] IP-backed, so meaning, like, there's no catalog backing it or anything like that. So we'll see. I think [00:43:20] 2026 that'll start changing. It already has. But I think what... And [00:43:25] Clear Note is also just generalist for entertainment and outside of that as well.[00:43:30]

[00:43:30] Cameron Siasi: But the origin of it, it started with, hey, majority of music is not [00:43:35] papered whatsoever. I could probably... I, I would wager whatever amount of [00:43:40] money and whatever you wanted that there's at least [00:43:45] A handful of songs in the top 40 on radio right now that doesn't have every bit of paperwork [00:43:50] done, let alone producer agreements or paid their producers yet.

[00:43:53] Cameron Siasi: It also shows that, [00:43:55] like, the music business is a little fundamentally broken when it comes to that aspect. Paperwork doesn't get done, [00:44:00] gets kicked down the curb. A lot of times, like, things that, like, a producer agreement [00:44:05] is enabling somebody to get paid, whether it's a royalty or a fee, that doesn't happen for a year.

[00:44:09] Cameron Siasi: That's the [00:44:10] difference between somebody making rent. So we wanted to set out to make a very simple way for [00:44:15] people to do that at any level, uh, make it so that they could go from a [00:44:20] template to a contract and distribute it, and then also go back and source, uh, whatever [00:44:25] information they need from that contract in the future.

[00:44:27] Cameron Siasi: Uh, and yeah, we have a, a great product that's live [00:44:30] right now. Uh, it's been going really well. Been interesting being in the startup world, [00:44:35] never being a founder, and now being one, you kind of bear the weight of- Everything ... [00:44:40] the whole world. Um, which has been good, but also super stressful. Kinda like [00:44:45] full circle, has it been a good year yet?

[00:44:46] Cameron Siasi: Uh, good, but, like, every s- every, like, [00:44:50] win also feels like, all right, I have 40 other things I need to win today, so, like, I gotta keep [00:44:55] it moving. Um, but it's been great. It's been great. It's, it's a new [00:45:00] challenge, which I've, I've really appreciated and enjoyed so far.

[00:45:03] Jake: How is it working with Swa? [00:45:05]

[00:45:05] Cameron Siasi: Swa's incredible.

[00:45:06] Cameron Siasi: Swa is a-

[00:45:08] Sajag: For, for those that don't know, Swa [00:45:10] is, uh, Cameron's co-founder or, uh,

[00:45:12] Cameron Siasi: CTO ... CTO. Uh, he's, he's [00:45:15] a... Dude, uh, even just Monday, like, uh, he gave me a pep [00:45:20] talk that I really needed. I rarely get to a point where I'm like... I wasn't [00:45:25] even in the dumps. I was just, like, forcing myself to face a couple things that I was skipping past, and he's [00:45:30] like, "Dude, that's..."

[00:45:31] Cameron Siasi: He's like, "This is the first time I've heard you ever talk like this." And I'm like, "Yeah, I don't usually [00:45:35] get like this." And, like, within five minutes... That's what's special about him. Like, yeah, he's an incredible engineer, [00:45:40] very technical guy, but he's also one of the most personable people on earth. And, [00:45:45] uh, yeah, lucky to know him, lucky to have a great team around us as well.

[00:45:49] Cameron Siasi: Working with him [00:45:50] is very special, 'cause he could just dissect something without ever even get, [00:45:55] getting into the weeds of it. Uh, and then we had other technical people, and hearing how they [00:46:00] describe him, it's like, it's like watching a, an athlete describe Michael Jordan or something like [00:46:05] that. They're like in awe of him.

[00:46:06] Cameron Siasi: I'm like, "Oh, shit." 'Cause, like, we-- I can't really tell all the time. I've [00:46:10] gotten decent at evaluating, like, technical talent at this point, but I'm not a developer or an engineer. [00:46:15] Um, but yeah, kudos to him, man. He's the best, the reason I'm even here today too. [00:46:20] Yeah.

[00:46:20] Sajag: It's true. We met through Swa,

[00:46:22] Cameron Siasi: so- [00:46:25]

[00:46:25] Jake: Yeah, he is a, a special connector and has a lot of emotional intelligence.

[00:46:29] Cameron Siasi: Definitely. [00:46:30] Definitely.

[00:46:30] Sajag: What's the closest you've come to just, like, quitting it all? What's the [00:46:35] underbelly of all this?

[00:46:36] Jake: There's no way.

[00:46:38] Sajag: I feel like there's [00:46:40] probably a moment, right, where you're just like, "What am I doing?" You're ripping your hair out and you're like, you know, "Why am I doing [00:46:45] this? Did all... Did I make the right decisions?"

[00:46:47] Sajag: You're, like, second-guessing yourself. Like, when, when has that happened? [00:46:50]

[00:46:50] Cameron Siasi: It happens. It happens, uh, once a [00:46:55] month.

[00:46:56] Sajag: Okay, that

[00:46:56] Cameron Siasi: seems about right. Once a week.

[00:46:57] Sajag: Once a week?

[00:46:58] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, it happens all the time. In the winter, once

[00:46:59] Jake: [00:47:00] a day.

[00:47:00] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, at some points. Monday was one of those days where I'm like, "What the [00:47:05] fuck?" Like- 'Cause, like, you, you start stacking up [00:47:10] XY.

[00:47:11] Cameron Siasi: Like, I need to do this, I need to do that. You get a little [00:47:15] overwhelmed, but at the same time it's like, okay, when I do get the success, this is the [00:47:20] scarier part. It's like when I do get the success, how do I keep expounding on that success? I think [00:47:25] what, what's been sticking with me, and honestly, like, I, I kick those to the side 'cause [00:47:30] it doesn't really matter.

[00:47:31] Cameron Siasi: You gotta put your head down, put the blinders on and just keep pushing. [00:47:35] Like, find things you could do every day that'll keep the narrative going, that'll keep the lights going, [00:47:40] keep you moving. I think, uh, Marc Andreessen and Elon Musk were [00:47:45] having a big brain conversation. I don't know if they were talking together.

[00:47:48] Cameron Siasi: I think Marc Andreessen [00:47:50] just kinda said it. He's like, "Introspection is terrible." Like, any, any good founder I've ever [00:47:55] talked to or any good business person doesn't, isn't introspective at all. And I- That was a

[00:47:59] Sajag: very [00:48:00] controversial thing-

[00:48:00] Cameron Siasi: Yeah, I mean, I- ... when he said it ... I thought it was crazy when he said it.

[00:48:02] Sajag: I agree. Yeah.

[00:48:03] Cameron Siasi: But the more I've thought [00:48:05] about it, the more I kind of agree. And I even said it to somebody the other day who was kinda [00:48:10] like... He was talking about things and, like, uh, another founder, and [00:48:15] he was... I was like, "If you just stop thinking and just did everything you just told me, like, [00:48:20] just do it.

[00:48:20] Cameron Siasi: See what happens. Try it for a week." I was like, I, I wasn't [00:48:25] trying to prescribe anything, but I'm like, "I would try that if I was you," and I will try it. At, I'm sure at so- at some point I will try [00:48:30] that strategy. Um, but yeah, I, I think that [00:48:35] really stuck with me. Um, yeah. [00:48:40]

[00:48:40] Jake: Can only be learning or practicing.

[00:48:42] Jake: There is no time to think, right?

[00:48:44] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. [00:48:45] I think thinking is important, which is a, you know, what are we talking about here? It's like breathing, [00:48:50] right? Um, but I think at the same time, like, getting into a [00:48:55] flow of consciousness or brief, brief flow state, whatever it is, [00:49:00] I think that's such a special feeling.

[00:49:03] Cameron Siasi: It's like lightning in a bottle. [00:49:05] If you can maximize that in life, whatever that looks like for you, [00:49:10] it's more fulfilling. Let alone, like, output and, like, quality of output. It's way more fulfilling [00:49:15] to be in that flow state. Um, but yeah, I, I think that's what they're really getting at. It's [00:49:20] like, why would I be in this analysis paralysis where I'm going over every single other thing, [00:49:25] what my competitors are doing, what my peers are doing, when I could just be doing?[00:49:30]

[00:49:30] Jake: What are your aspirations for this business?

[00:49:34] Cameron Siasi: [00:49:35] I really think there's a huge gap in businesses in general where they [00:49:40] don't really have a grip on their playbooks when it comes to, like, how they're [00:49:45] structuring deals, how they're structuring their legal process. I think it, it's the most direct [00:49:50] for music and entertainment right now, but we've already had so much interest outside of that too.[00:49:55]

[00:49:55] Cameron Siasi: I think it's a, it's a pretty big problem across the board. But aspirationally, I, I [00:50:00] wake up every day wanting to have an impact. It's not like I'm changing the world with this just yet, [00:50:05] but, like, if I can do something interesting that's helping somebody every day, even if it's one person, [00:50:10] I'm pretty happy about that.

[00:50:11] Jake: To plug Travis real quick, I feel like you can go in there feeling shitty-

[00:50:14] Cameron Siasi: [00:50:15] Yeah ...

[00:50:15] Jake: but when you're sitting in the sauna and you're dying and there's just people next to you, I [00:50:20] feel like the endorphins or something make you wanna talk to people.

[00:50:22] Cameron Siasi: Absolutely. I was having a, a... [00:50:25] talking to him in that, uh, I think it's the banya, the really hot one.

[00:50:29] Jake: Yeah.

[00:50:29] Cameron Siasi: Like, [00:50:30] 250 degrees in there. So- And we're just, like, full-blown conversation, probably 15 [00:50:35] minutes in, what felt like two hours for me-

[00:50:37] Jake: Yeah ...

[00:50:37] Cameron Siasi: by the, like, the last minute or two. And he hasn't

[00:50:39] Jake: broken a sweat.

[00:50:39] Cameron Siasi: [00:50:40] He hasn't broken a sweat, and then he mentions, like, "Is this okay for you, by the way?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm fine."

[00:50:44] Cameron Siasi: [00:50:45] Five minutes later, I'm, like, fucking dying, and I go, "I think I'm... I think I gotta stop." [00:50:50]

[00:50:50] Jake: We went, we... My girlfriend and I went to the opening in Brooklyn-

[00:50:53] Cameron Siasi: Okay ...

[00:50:53] Jake: um, on Atlantic Ave, and I walked [00:50:55] in the banya. He's like, "Oh, no, no, no. It takes 10 days to heat up."

[00:50:58] Cameron Siasi: Oh, my God. Like, [00:51:00] wow. That's, that's crazy. That one has, uh...

[00:51:02] Cameron Siasi: It's fully fitted with, like, a Dolby sound system.

[00:51:04] Jake: [00:51:05] Yeah. It's amazing. They're about to do some really cool stuff with the sound. They had a DJ there. We were drinking a little bit, going in the sauna, and I almost [00:51:10] passed out.

[00:51:10] Cameron Siasi: Yeah.

[00:51:10] Jake: The acoustics in there are incredible. It was actually a really fun place to listen to some music.

[00:51:14] Jake: [00:51:15] Eric Andre is just chilling there, and as most Jewish [00:51:20] men do, I love Emily Ratajkowski. Yeah. My girlfriend knows this. My girlfriend taps Eric Andre on the [00:51:25] shoulder. She goes, "My boyfriend adores you, obsessed with you, like, wants to be you." [00:51:30] He's like, "Why?" She's like, "Loves Emily Ratajkowski." She's like... He's like, "You can have her."[00:51:35]

[00:51:35] Jake: I was like, "Love to." But yeah. My girlfriend put me in a [00:51:40] great spot. Like, most awkward position- He's hilarious, man ... with a guy who does not feel awkwardness. Yeah. If [00:51:45]

[00:51:45] Sajag: you had to walk somebody through kinda your path in life, obviously very [00:51:50] unique, right? Would you... If you're talking to your younger self, maybe, maybe [00:51:55] not you, maybe somebody else-

[00:51:56] Jake: Sure

[00:51:56] Sajag: and they're like, "Hey, I wanna do what, what you do, Cameron. I wanna [00:52:00] start a record label. I wanna go down this path and have a very similar career," would you [00:52:05] recommend it? Would you say, "Hey-"

[00:52:08] Cameron Siasi: You have to be really crazy to [00:52:10] wanna work in music Um, especially the business side of it. I think, like, [00:52:15] obviously to be, like, a, an athlete, musician, anything in that sense where [00:52:20] you're one of the superlatives globally, and we're talking about a population of [00:52:25] seven to eight billion people, and you're one of, I don't know, [00:52:30] 10,000.

[00:52:30] Cameron Siasi: How many people are truly, like, at the peak and have that celebrity [00:52:35] status? It's, it's extremely, extremely difficult to get to that point. But on the business side, [00:52:40] you have to also be super delusional. I mean, music itself is not a massive [00:52:45] business. It's a growing business, but the, the industry isn't as big as, you know, [00:52:50] construction or tech or anything like that.

[00:52:52] Cameron Siasi: I mean, we're, we're literally [00:52:55] a, a, an accounting error for the tech industry. The whole thing could be blipped [00:53:00] out in just one blow. Mm. The impact it has is interesting. What would I tell somebody [00:53:05] who wanted to get into it, or would I advise them to do it? I, I would first ask if they're, if they really love it [00:53:10] or if they're just doing it because they think it'll be fun.[00:53:15]

[00:53:15] Cameron Siasi: And, you know, you could have fun in, in the work that you do and really love [00:53:20] it, but a lot of the times, uh, blurring, like, your passion with work isn't gonna [00:53:25] work out for everybody. So if you can get past that first stage, you're gonna have a great time. [00:53:30] It's, it's incredible. People are great. The business is fun and dynamic.

[00:53:34] Cameron Siasi: Um, it's [00:53:35] an overlooked industry right now too, like maybe how gaming was in, like, 2008. [00:53:40] Um, I, I think there's a lot of room for growth, and I think it's an incredible business to be in. [00:53:45]

[00:53:46] Sajag: Cool. So we ask everybody that [00:53:50] comes on the podcast, who's the coolest person that you know? [00:53:55]

[00:53:55] Cameron Siasi: Coolest person[00:54:00]

[00:54:01] Cameron Siasi: I wish I had time to prep this one. I was, uh [00:54:05] You know, I, I would honestly like, he's fresh on the mind, but I'd say [00:54:10] Swa. Swa's had a very... The more I learn about him, the more I'm like, "What the hell?" Like, he's [00:54:15] done so many interesting things. I don't know if, if that's even been said at this point too. Like, I don't know if [00:54:20] somebody else might have said that too.

[00:54:21] Cameron Siasi: Uh, I'd say Swa. Yeah, very interesting guy. What, what

[00:54:24] Sajag: makes [00:54:25] him, what, what makes him super cool in, in your eyes? Um, aside from, you know, what we've already talked [00:54:30] about.

[00:54:30] Cameron Siasi: Yeah. I, I'd say like he... It's all those things, like, even on the technical [00:54:35] side, he's self-taught. It's not like he has this background of being like a cracked engineer who went to an Ivy League [00:54:40] school or anything.

[00:54:40] Cameron Siasi: Like, not to say what he has, has done isn't [00:54:45] prestigious. It, it definitely is. He has an incredible background. But, um, the energy about him, [00:54:50] always doing something fun, always has like a enthusiasm and enjoyment, [00:54:55] uh, of learning about other people, other paths, people. Asks [00:55:00] very inquisitive, but like curious questions, and has like a natural curiosity that doesn't [00:55:05] really exist amongst most [00:55:10] [00:55:15] people.